Where’s the 5D?
Remember reading Where’s Waldo when you were a kid? We had so much fun playing a similar game to test your vision and your response was overwhelming! Thank-you for taking the time to play and making it so hard to choose a winner!
MIO
In this Mio sequence from our current Navy SEAL film project, we used two HD cameras the Canon 5D Mark II and the Sony 950. We also shot some of it with the Arri 235. There are subtle differences between 10 Bit HD with the Sony 950 and 8 Bit color space with the Canon 5D!
The Navy asked as to scrub the footage, so the contest is now over. However, the person who guessed it correctly will receive a prize from Hurlbut Visuals.
We will announce the winner on Monday November 2, 2009. Thank-you for participating!
First of all great short, It looks amazing!
My guess would be the dolly shot with 2 smaller boats and the yacht as the camera goes from right to left. its the 3rd shot it is used with the 5d
Can’t spot any difference, but it is a beautiful shot! And I’m not talking about SEALs shooting the bad guys…
Shane, first-off let me say that while I watched your trailer, I was completely riveted to the screen …. well shot, great sequences, great cut! And get those damn bad guys, lol ! Love it …
Tough call in many instances to pick out what’s what … but I’ll give it a shot!
My guess is that the first few establishing shots (00-00:15) of the boat are shot on film with the Arri 235. Next, the models on the boat look like they were shot with the 5d mkII, especially the shot at 00:46, which I dig, it’s a great hand-held shot that tracks right up to the drink. The next three shots, i.e. gun-man getting blasted against the window 1:00) look like the Sony 950, and also 1:02, the blood shot on the window. Here’s where it gets even harder, because the edit is so good, and your color correction is well done … gonna have to say, that the master wide shots look like film with the Arri (1:04, 1:05-chopper and 1:10). Your handheld shots in the chopper (1:11) look like the 5d, as well as the shots at 1:32-1:38 and I think most of the hand-held on the ship with the soldiers is 5d (1:52-end) and 1:54 is definitely the 5d, incredible dof. Looks like you used the Sony on some of the other over-shoulder shots like 1:06,1:15, 1:25 and the medium shots like 1:39 and 1:51. Ari shots on film would be 1:18, 1:26 and 1:31.
Ok, I’ve just spent the last hour straining my eyes to find anything that would give it away … pretty tough to tell, honestly. So that’s my hunch … best I can do at 1 am (lol).
Thanks,
J-dog
p.s. The prize would be awesome if it happens to be spending a day on set learning from you Shane, just an idea … peace!
nice blog Shane, very inspiring for young dp’s like me (In Spain almost nobody using HDdslr on industry and I try to push it)
here is my guess for the 5D takes:
-When the girl armed with JB go downstairs from 0:37 to 0:57
-most of the “cameraman-mixed-with-soldiers” assault on boat, like:
1:42 POV cam
1:54 “behind helmet” (I am pretty sure about this one due gradation and softness of bokeh)
Next month I will try a snorricam attached to a gun for action scenes, maybe is not the best thing for the integrity of the cmos but should look amazing.
regards from Europe.
Alvaro.
Alvaro, Good guesses we will let you know who the winner is on Monday Nov.2nd. Mounting it to a gun sounds very cool. The camera can move in ways we have never seen before. I also like handheld with the camera, it being so small you get a vibration when moving that I love, the new handheld, a new language. I am glad you liked the blog. All the best, Shane
Amazing work!
My guess for the 5d Mark II footage is all the hand held footage of the Navy Seals, starting at 0:59 with the POV of from inside the yacht of the ‘bad guy’ getting shot. All the footage of the Seals in the boat approaching the yacht plus the water shot of the Seal’s boat passing and I would say the shot from the yacht and from the helicopter as the Seal’s helicopter approaches and as the Seals jump out and all the hand held of the Seals swarming the yacht.
I just shot a music video on the 5D and I’m still in awe on how well the 5D performed.
-Matthew
Are we all ‘guessed-up’ or is there a little more room for a few more comments of the video? Cheers
Is this footage all converted to 23.98? What workflow are you using for the footage? It looks amazing.
I’ve come to the conclusion that all wide shots at the beginning are the 950, and a lot of the ‘calmer’ action is the 950. But when the Navy Seals first show up and things get tense, it switches to the 5DMKII. The camera is too frenetic to be a big body, so all of those CU’s with the Seals are definitely the MKII.
I also have a feeling the CU of the girls ‘behind’ as she walks with the drink is the MKII…I just kept watching it over and over…that same clip. And I think that it was the MKII.
Maybe I’ll go back and watch that shot again.
Here goes . .
All Stabilized aerial establishing shots of yacht and tenders – Arri
Onboard shots of girls, UW shot of guard, more shots of girls and jefe, inside/outiside shots of guard being hit, – All 5D2
POV from chopper over gunner’s shoulder-sony
inside shot of seal boat going past bullethole, Sony.
onboard seal boats and in water 5d2
in chopper cockpit sony
aerial stablizied – Arri
in choper rope drop – sony
all onboard pov – 5d2
onboard through window – sony
I just came across your site today and I am glad I did. As far as the contest goes I don’t have a clue, I will have to watch it a few more times. That being said I did want to see if it is possible for you to show some lighting diagrams and setups you used in this film and/or in previous films. It would be interesting to see how you approach lighting. Also I am aware that the low light quality of these HDDSLR’s are pretty amazing, if it is possible it would be great to see how you adjust your lighting techniques to work with these cameras. I am a newbie at cinematography and would love to learn as many tricks of the trade as I can.
Great site,
Shaun
What a fantastic footage and the competition. I love the idea. This is the kind of challenge I’ve been waiting for.
Pete say:
Opening shots: Arri
The girls onboard from about 00:15 are digital. I’d say Sony.
Then and about 00:29 – girl with a drink – nice shallow DOF – that’s 5D.
01:00 – very dynamic shots – back to film, but some onboard shots are digital and mos probably sony. they r too fast for 5d (yello cam warning). Panning around the boat, shots from the air – all film.
The moment the soldiers hit the deck – digital (mostly sony)
and around 01:32 the pilot inside the halicopter – that’s 5D
01:54 – 5D without a doubt
Shane, before I give my guesses did you add grain to any of the 5D2 Shots? I swear the shots of the girls on the deck show grain in the blurred background, same when the drink is being walked in.
Good stuff and thanks in advance.
00:00 – 00:15 Arri/Sony
00:15 – 00:21 5D The Girls – but not sure
00:21 – 00:26 Water Camera – 5D?
00:26 – 00:36 Sony (looks like Sony Colors)
00:36 – 00:59 5D Girl with Glass (btw. there where no ice cubes in the glass when she picked it up on deck upstairs ;-)
00:59 – 01:00 Sony
01:00 – 01:02 5D soldier on boat, typical 5D Jello when too shaky
01:02 – 01:03 5D
01:03 – 01:06 Arri
01:06 – 01:07 5D
01:07 – 01:08 Water Cam 5D?
01:08 – 01:09 5D
01:09 – 01:10 Arri
01:10 – 01:17 5D Helicopter
01:17 – 01:18 Water Cam 5D?
01:18 – 01:20 Arri/Sony
01:20 – 01:23 5D
01:23 – 01:24 Arri
01:24 – 01:26 5D
01:26 – 01:29 Sony/Arri
01:29 – 01:30 5D
01:30 – 01:31 Sony/Arri
01:31 – 01:39 5D
01:39 – 01:40 Sony/Arri
01:40 – 01:51 5D
01:51 – 01:52 Sony/Arri
01:52 – 01:54 Sony
01:54 – 01:57 5D
Most 5D shots i recognized by the 5d jello rolling shutter effect. If it´s very shaky it´s quite obvious, because i am used to it with my 5d2. I think most (if not all) aerial shots far away are made with the Arri. Some look so steady and crisp. But I can´t really tell the difference between Film and Digi.
Nice Contest, Nice Trailer!
First off great work, here are my guesses!
Shots of the outer boat 1,2,3 are with the ARRI. The 5D moire wouldn’t work on the water to well.
Girls shot #4 is with the Sony, the DoF looks like 2/3.
Underwater shot #5 5D MarkII
Shot #6 Gril with Bell Sony Again
Shots 6,7 girl grabs glass and goes to lower deck 5D Mark II the handling is too quick for a heavy camera.
Shots 8,9 lowering stairs dark and People having drinks Sony 950, too much noise to be a 5D.
Shot 10 Following girl with glass and placed on table 5D Mark II very clean.
Shot 11 Newton Cradle 5D Mark II.
Shot 12 Quick Pan to window man gets shot. 5D Mark II rolling shutter on walls.
Shot 13 Man falls from shot, 5D Mark II rolling jello again. Still looks good.
Shot 14 From behind soldier on Boat, 5D II again, gun jiggles a bit.
Shot 15 Shattered window from shot 5D II also, wall jello on pan.
Shot 16 Overhead Boat ARRI
Shot 17 Overhead chopper ARRI No rolling shutter on blades and great depth.
Shot 18 Soldier on boat Sony 950 I cant see rolling shutter at all.
Shot 19 Boat Goes By view from waters edge 5D II
Shot 20 Behind Big Gun, Slight jiggle on gun 5D Mark II.
Shot 21 Panoramic view of scene ARRI.
Shot 22 View from Inside Chopper Sony 950 No Water Moire or Jello.
Shot 23 View of crew on raft 5D II rolling shutter apparent.
Shot 24 Shutter approaching Deck Sony 950
Shot 25 View from small boat looking at chopper 5D II Jello apparent on Boat Post.
Shot 26 Boat passes view from water Sony 950.
Shot 27 Boat follow side view Sony 950.
Shot 28 Shaky view from small boat 5D mark II
Shot 29 View inside chopper they drop ropes Sony 950
Shot 30 View of chopper hover with smoke scene ARRI, great quality.
Shot 31 Men slide from rope Sony 950
Shot 32 Slide from rope aerial view ARRI Film
Shot 33 Man below chopper Sony 950
Shot 34 Raft view side ARRI
Shot 35 Joystick on chopper tilt up 5D II
Shot 36 Three soldiers camera moves forward Sony 950
Shot 37 Camera orbits around soldiers and shows chopper 5D II, has tons of artifacts from twixtor or pixel motion on the columns and even chopper. That one was easy.
Shot 38 Aerial view of soldiers close to boat on raft ARRI
Shot 39 Soldiers getting on large white boat 5D II Jello Visible
Shot 40 Behind rifle shot Sony 950 no jello visible even with harsh motion.
Shot 41 Soldiers coming up ladder 5D II a lot of jello.
Shot 42 Soldiers passing with lens flare Sony 950 stable and the flare is not SLR like.
Shot 43 1:50 Shakey soldier shot 5D Mark II body bends.
Shot 44 Pilot view on shadow ARRI, good dynamic range.
Shot 45 View from air to side of white boat with soldiers ARRI
Shot 46 Soldiers moving sideways on window shot from inside Sony 950
Shot 47 Soldier shoulder view with rifle, 5D II Jello deforms helmet slightly.
Shot 48 Zoom to soldiers goggles made with a camera truck 5D II head deforms at end
Shot 49 Rifle orbit for shot 5D II artifacts of heavy motion due to pixel motion?
Shot 50 Shot to the head of evil doer 5D II jello walls very apparent
Shot 51 Shot from inside boat to look at fall from man shot. Sony 950
Ok I admit I am not quite sure about the in water camera but from the looks of it it could be that both the Sony and the Canon had water enclosures.
I tried my best, awesome footage, Michael bay would be jealous. :D
…I agree too, saying it’s all 5d video, with many bodies. Different color settings although. Plugins to remove Rolling shutter issue, when there’s much visual action.
In any case, great job, even if I’m surprised by color saturation mismatch.
J Dog, I am so glad you like this, I am sorry about straining your eyeballs, the winner will be announced on Monday, and I think your idea of the prize is perfect. I will make that happen. How does a day with the Navy Seals in San Diego sound. Thanks so much for all your in depth examination. More to come. All the Best, Shane
UA, excellent analysis. What a breakdown, I have my elite team going through shot by shot, taking all your comments and breakdowns. I am glad you like it. This is getting good. All the best, Shane
James, your breakdown is awesome. Thank you so much for your passion. It will pay off. I loved J Dogs suggestion for the prize. San Diego, Navy Seals, next week.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say this entire sequence was shot with the 5D!
Egon, this was literally my first try with this camera system in the elements, the whole color temp. thing was all over the place. I didn’t realize how important micro managing the Kelvin was. This 8 BIT color space is so limited, you need to get it very close. I now treat it like reversal film stock. I carry my color meter around on my belt. I can successfully take a scene shot from early morning to high noon to later afternoon, and with my meter monitor the color temp and have it come out one consistent color, this is one of the most important things to learn about this camera. Thanks Shane
Hey Tim, no grain was added in any of the shots. Hint hint
Brandon, thanks for the good eye. But I would go look at it again, hint hint!!!! Find Waldo. Thanks, Shane
Hi Lindsay, all the 5D footage was shot 30p, then converted using Twixtor. The pull up is the best I have ever seen, there logarithms are incredible. The Bandito Brothers is the production co. and they have an incredible post prod. workflow for this camera. To this date, if we were shooting film, our footage count would be 1.7 million feet of film. This camera is saving the environment, on 5D at a time. All the best, Shane
Hi Pete, The game is on. Great breakdown, I would check it again. Shane
Hi Kal, keep the breakdowns coming, the contest ends Monday Nov.2nd. Prize will be awarded Tuesday. Travel to San Diego on the 4th to Hang with the Navy Seals. Play on…
Shaun, thank you so much for all your comments, I light off of a HP monitor. It gives me the best resolution. Lighting you have to be obsessed with the subtleties and not be heavy handed. I find that 1/3 of a stop lighting changes are like a 1 stop lighting change on film. I have found the camera with the Panavision Primo prime on the camera you get 7.5 stops in the under and 5 stops in the over. Lets stay in touch.
To everyone, I want to thank you for all your amazing comments, I will try to be as personal as possible and address everyone by name. My elite team will also be on call to answer questions. I am sorry to respond so slowly. I have been in a DI suite all day color correcting the SIZZLE REEL for the Navy SEAL film. Keep playing, the winner will be announced on Monday Nov. 2nd. The prize is J Dog’s idea a day on the set in San Diego with the Navy SEALS, next week. GOOD LUCK!!!!
I agree with Breck I think the whole thing was 5D.
Great video!
Here’s my guess… It was all in shot in 5D!! hehe.
I wish I could say that but that wouldn’t make this a game,,,
so here I go.
00:08-00:15 Helicopter shot (that goes around the boat)
00:15-00:22 Ladies
00:23-00:26 Underwater shot looking up to a guy in sunglasses
01:20-01:22 In boat scene
01:32-01:33 Close up of helicopter pilot
01:33-01:34 Close up of army
01:40-01:44 Camera on gun first person view
01:52-01:53 Through the window shot
To my eyes, the only way I could tell was looking at the dynamic range in the clouds and the ocean. I might be wrong but on some othe shots, the whites were blown out,, and I thought this was due the difference in the bit rates like you’ve mentioned,, 8bit:)
btw, I think I saw a reflection of the camear operator right around 00:30., but I can’t tell what camera he’s using:)
I really want this camera:) I saw your other video where you’ve mentioned that you’re using a 28mm nikon lens, do you preffer the nikon lenses or would you say any lens would do now that 5D can manual control?
Thanks!
*I’m submitting this from Japan!
Looks like level pegging to me! Pure Dynamite!
Clark, I think the best small still lenses are the Zeiss primes, the ZE and the ZF series. I have done extensive test with them and they resolve the best. The sharpest image is the key to getting the limiting 8 bit color space to perform. When it is soft all detail is lost. Thanks for your breakdown.
Hi Shane,
Great work, I hope the box office results reflect it.
How are you dealing with the rolling shutter, horizontal lines issue with the 5D. Almost all panning shots I have taken at some point are effected by this?
How are you getting around it?
Awesome work again.
Luke
This is so sick!
I have no clue as to what camera you used when.
But how the heck did you pull off getting the snake eaters to help you out!?!?
So exiting what can be done with these puppies!
Thanks for taking the time, and thanks for sharing!
Alright, here are my guesses:
Shot 1: wide helicopter shot above boat: sony. The highlights hold reasonably well, the image is very clean, and whatever kind of rig is being used for the camera probably makes it very inconvenient to change mags every 2 or 4 minutes like you would have to with the 235, so I’m guessing it’s the f950. I’m using this logic on all the helicopter shots, so if I’m wrong on this one, I probably missed a bunch.
Shot 2: closer helicopter shot above boat: sony
Shot 3: helicopter shot behind boat: sony
Shot 4: girls lying on deck: arri. I see some grain here and there and the white surfaces of the boat don’t seem overly blown out.
Shot 5: guy with machine gun from under water: arri. Again, highlights are under control, and I see a white speck or two of dust on the film in a couple of frames. Since I’m guessing that this is the arri, and you had an underwater housing for that camera, that leads me to guess that several other shots from that angle are also with the arri.
Shot 6: girl by bell: arri. again I see some film grain
Shot 7: girl picking up drink: arri. It seems to be on Steadicam, and I imagine the 5d would be very awkward to use on a Steadicam, and the f950, being tethered to an SR deck, is not ideal for Steadicam either.
Shot 8: girl going below deck: arri
Shot 9: girl from bottom of stairs: arri. more film grain.
Shot 10: guy toasting: arri. This whole sequence seems to be the 235 on the Steadicam.
Shot 11: following close behind girl: arri
Shot 12: close up on balls vibrating: arri. Out of context I might guess 5d, but since the rest of the sequence looks like the arri to me, I’m sticking with arri.
Shot 13: guy getting shot from inside boat: arri. Again, I see a dust speck or two on the film.
Shot 14: guy getting shot from outside: 5d. Blown out highlights and the handheld low-angle shot makes it seem like a shot for the 5d.
Shot 15: from behind helmet: 5d
Shot 16: boat passing shattered glass: 5d
Shot 17: boats from helicopter: sony
Shot 18: helicopter from helicopter: sony
Shot 19: boat driver: 5d
Shot 20: speedboat going past camera at water level: arri. Too quick to tell, but I’m sticking with my theory that most of the shots from water level are with the arri.
Shot 21: from behind gun in raft: 5d
Shot 22: boats from helicopter: sony
Shot 23: silhouette of helicopter pilot in cockpit: 5d. I went back and forth between the arri and 5d on this one, but some later shots in the cockpit look like 5d to me, so I’m going with 5d.
Shot 24: in raft: 5d
Shot 25: helicopter overhead: 5d
Shot 26: in speedboat: 5d
Shot 27: speedboat from water level: arri
Shot 28: silhouetted speedboat: sony. I thought arri for a while, but changed my mind.
Shot 29: from behind guy: 5d
Shot 30: guy getting ready to jump: 5d
Shot 31: silhouetted helicopter: sony
Shot 32: guy jumping out of helicopter: 5d
Shot 33: helicopter shot of guys getting out of helicopter: sony
Shot 34: guy landing on boat: 5d
Shot 35: silhouetted speedboat: sony
Shot 36: helicopter pilot: 5d
Shot 37: seals that just got off helicopter: 5d
Shot 38: following behind seals: 5d
Shot 39: overhead of seals getting off raft onto boat: sony
Shot 40: seals getting onto boat: 5d
Shot 41: following gun: 5d
Shot 42: seal getting on boat: 5d
Shot 43: silhouetted seals going into boat: 5d
Shot 44: in front of silhouetted seal: 5d
Shot 45: silhoutted helicopter pilot: 5d. Was confused for a while, but saw what looks like moireing above the pilots head, and that clinched it for me.
Shot 46: helicopter shot of seals on boat: sony
Shot 47: seals through boat window: 5d
Shot 48: behind helmet: 5d
Shot 49: close up from front: 5d
Shot 50: pull back to gun firing: 5d
Shot 51: whip pan to guy getting shot: 5d
Shot 52: guy getting shot from behind: 5d
Luke, so much about this camera is creating your own cocktail. My cocktail is Neutral Picture Style, 1/50 shutter speed, Twixtor plug-in for you 30-24fps pull up. This combo platter works like a champ and I feel gives it more of a filmic look. All the best, SHane
Kabcar, this project has been in the development stage for over 2 years. The Navy has been unbelievable in the cooperation and their assets. They see it as the best recruitment film ever. Hell when I see this I want to join for Christ sake. working with the real navy seals has been an incredible experience. This is what is so unique about this film. The stars of this film are real Navy SEALS. They are so bad ass.
Hi Shane,
I love the passion for the 5D mk2. I have been shooting on it since late last year and we are in exciting times!
Couple of quick questions:
Is this Navy Seal movie for theatrical release?
Have you had a chance to play around with the 7D and if so, what are your thoughts? I have both, but the 5D is tops in my opinion. Looking forward to 24p.
Thanks for this great new blog! I will work on a breakdown this weekend of the shots.
Shane how long will you be in San Diego for? Any way you could spend an hour with the local film maker meetup? There are dozens of DPs/filmmakers here who’d love to pick your brain about the 5D.
I downloaded the 1080 version, to really see the difference, and you can tell it is shot with different cameras. Especially the slower opening shots of the girls look slightly different; only us train spotters though would see.
By the way I am an editor in New Zealand; so wouldn’t be able to come over to claim the prize!
There is nasty aliasing on the opening fly overs, the worst is the third shot!
That can’t be film, and not wobbly so not 5D.
I’m guessing Sony.
White spot at Fr541 – do the digital cameras do this? Surely film.
White spot Fr 651.
White spot at frame 1156, and black spot at 1158.
I could spot the film anomalies all day, but will rather say what is not film!
Fr702 – 5D, girl grabs glass, color looks different, just not as nice.
Following shot is 5D…
Really handheld and tight action shots are 5D.
It’s to dull to go shot for shot, I tried but got bored.
It all looks good, and apart from some CMOS wobble, and grain/color/contrast/sharpness subtle differences almost impossible to tell.
The head mounted 5D is where the DSLR camera shows it’s potential as a true tool in its own right.
I respect you guys for pushing the limits, and the results look great.
5DmkII on
4,5,6,7,8,11,12,19,20,21,22,23,24,26,34,36,37,47
hope i didn’t skip a cut!
cheers,
start scenes from high above where we see the boats and a flyby near the boats: all 5D MkII, I recognized its main shortcoming: no anti-aliasing in the scale down from a 21 Mpix (CCD) to a 2Mpix(HD1080) you normally use some scaling algorhytms, 5D MkII does not.
Next scene with the ladies: some 24fps flickering, must be film (although this could be simulated but I would say film anyway)
coming out of water: dust specs, film
following the girl: dust specs, film
incoming soldiers: from higher altitude; still 5DMarkII (aliasing)
many scenes that move too much to get a real idea…
Small white boat passing by: lots of noise, not 5DMii, must be that other digital
first soldiers landing on boat, close-up: lots of noise…. the other digital
first soldiers landing on boat, flyby: 5DMii
close-ups soldiers on catwalk: I see some HDR going on… must be that other digital…
Fantastic! The crisp arry is simple to found (no chromatich aberratons and mega resolution), but this footage remuxed on PS3 is a BLOCKBUSTER! why ps3 ? beacause i’m tryng to enhance compressed footages and ps3 have 10bit 4:2:2 scaler, block correction, etc… and HDMI out :))
Also passed throught madVR directshow render for GPU 16bit dither chroma/luma channels and on ps3 “it’s a kind of magic”, try a raw d5 footage.
Only a request:
PLEASE! TELL ME THAT THE SCENE OF GLASS FROM START TABLE TO THE END DOWN THE STAIRS AND THE 2ND TABLE ARE ALL EOS 5D MKII !!
AND IF I SAY: RESAMPLING TO 4K, CORRECT AND ENHANCE AND DOWNSIZE TO FULLHD ?
TRY. but with the right tool that i’m developing. can help me?
ciao, sorry for my baaad english.
p.s. lens ZEISS ZF or CANON EF BLA-BLA L IS USM?
When I was analyzing the video and writing out all the shots, conventions took a back seat to just getting it done, so hopefully you can decipher what I wrote. Of course, there are a few I wasn’t sure about.
1 – arri
2 – arri
3 – arri
models – 5d
out of water – 5d
model, bell – 5d
drink on table – 5d
down stairs 1 – 5d
down stairs 2 – arri
old guy – arri
behind – arri
shaking table – 5d
pan to window – arri
guy hitting window – 5d
marine over the shoulder – sony
boat passing by window – arri
shot of all boats – arri
helicopter top – 5d
interceptor boat past other interceptor – sony
boat over wave – 5d
looking down machine gun – 5d
boats with red flare – arri
helicopter cockpit – 5d
marines in interceptor boat – sony
helicopter turning – sony
marines overtaking large boat – sony
speedboat – 5d
hazy boats – arri
looking back out of marine boat to yacht – sony
pushing bag out of helicopter – 5d
helicopter with bag dropping – 5d
marine reppelling from helicopter – sony
marines landing on yacht – arri
snippet of marine – sony
interceptor speeding away from yacht – arri
boat pilot – 5d
line of marines and subsequen shot – 5d
flying over boats – arri
marines moving up stairs – sony
marines at top of stairs – sony
marines walkign though sun – 5d
shaky marine – sony
smippet of pilot – 5d
marines walking down side of yache – arri
view of marines from inside boat – 5d
looking down marine’s gun – 5d
shots fired – sony
bloody window – 5d
So yeah, there ya go.
Jon, Yes this is a theatrical release, 3500 screens in the U.S. and 300 IMAX screens across the country. 60ft screen, yeah baby!!! I have 8 5D’s and 3 7D’s, I love the 5D sensor, it feels less contrasty and holds more detail in the highlights. But on the Navy Seal film the 7D enabled me to use all of the Panavision Primo prime arsenal. I can use a 10mm Primo prime now, where I was limited with the sensor size to a 35mm Primo on the 5D. With the 7D I will take the downside of the camera to gain the quality of the Panavision glass. The difference is night and day in resolving power. Shane
The other Shane, I will be down in San Diego the 2nd thru the 6th. I would love to meet as many people as you can get together. My elite team will be down there and everyone could get a hands on peek at the Hurlbut location pkg. I would have 1.5 hours available on one of these three nights 2nd,3rd,4th to talk to everyone. I am staying in the Gas Lamp District.
Interesting. So far I’ve only looked at the first two scenes (have to go back to work). The first scene from the air of the boat is 5D (this is clear from the severe moire on the boat). The first scene of the model looks like film, judging by the grain. However, I’m not familiar with either the Sony or the Arri. I’ll educate myself on these two cameras before posting my full analysis.
Some of the artifacts, like hue discontinuity around clouds could be controlled somewhat by choices in workflow. I’d also be interested to know how the film was converted to digital. It may be film, but it’s also digital. The analog to digital step is relevant, I think.
I’m not going to go for the gold, but in general, my guess is that most (but not the last) of the silhouettes during boarding are film (too much detail in blacks and whites in water not blown out). The last silhouette looks a bit too contrasty for film.
Also in general, the “video” footage has this weird grain in bright areas (girl slowly coming down steps… there are others). The longer the shot, the more annoying this is. On newer network dramas shot on video, this “pixel” grain is usually most evident in bright blown out windows. Unless… this is an artifact of newer cine chains during transfer. Hopefully not. Either way, the effect drives me bats, it’s so un-film-like.
That all being said, of course fast cutting does help prevent the eye from settling in too long. Although the long wide established shots could be either, it’s not really an acid test. It’s just a matter of what camera mount is best for aerials.
I also saw the “tearing” in some shots. I assume that was 5D? Or was that caused by your conversion software?
Hey, but don’t get me wrong. I am very impressed by this film. Years ago I was a VERY early pioneer of trying to make video look like film (and using video to create special effects from stabilized film layers). That this comparison is as hard as it is is a game changer in my opinion.
I don’t think that the 5D and it’s ilk are quite up to not needing careful amounts of fill light added “around the practicals” (you still can’t quite throw a bare bulb in the scene and shoot it) but it’s getting damn close.
Nice work !!! Congrats for being so bold!!
I’ve watched it quit a thew times and from my experience with the 5d, I had an idea what 5d footage looks like. The two other cameras I’ve got actually no clue but I can guess that the sony is a cam mostly used for TV and the Arri for Cinematography.
So this is my guess:
All shots taken near people (bikini Girl and soldiers) war taken with the Canon 5d Mark II.
Shots taken wide open with the sony 9as the one out of the water.
And last some shots where the helicopter appears was shot with the Arri.
So I didn’t wan’t to analyse each shot but mostly just in general.
This is very inspiring. I love the work and effort.
Hope to see the results of this contest.
Stefan
Shane, thanks for the hint earlier. Here is my breakdown. I’m sure there are a couple of 5D vs Sony shots I reversed but I hope I got the film vs digital correct. I’m in the “OC” so hanging out in San Diego sounds good to me ;)
I based it on the Quicktime player time so no frames just minutes/seconds, hope the numbers are close enough to match the shots up.
00:00 – 00:15 > 5D
00:15 – 01:00 > Arri
01:00 – 01:02 > 5D
01:02 – 01:03 > 5D
01:03 – 01:05 > 5D (Could be Sony but I see slight Aliasing)
01:05 – 01:06 > Sony (5D could pull this shot off too based on my use of the camera so 50/50)
01:06 – 01:07 > 5D
01:07 – 01:08 > Arri
01:08 – 01:09 > 5D
01:09 – 01:10 > 5D (Could be Sony but I see slight Aliasing)
01:10 – 01:12 > Sony (Could be 5D but I would expect to see more in the shadows due to the sensor size)
01:12 – 01:13 > 5D
01:13 – 01:14 > 5D
01:14 – 01:18 > 5D
01:17 – 01:18 > Arri (Based on other low water shots I say this is the Arri but the strange rippling on the boat make me think this is the 5D or is that water on the lens causing that?)
01:18 – 01:20 > Sony (Some highlight aliasing – 5D?)
01:20 – 01:23 > 5D
01:23 – 01:24 > Sony (Some highlight aliasing – 5D?)
01:24 – 01:26 > 5D
01:26 – 01:29 > Sony (Some highlight aliasing – 5D?)
01:29 – 01:30 > 5D
01:30 – 01:31 > Sony (but Based on Shot at 1:18 – 01:20 – 5D?)
01:31 – 01:33 > 5D
01:33 – 01:39 > 5D
01:39 – 01:40 > Sony
01:40 – 01:50 > 5D
01:50 – 01:51 > 5D
01:51 – 01:52 > 5D
01:52 – 01:54 > 5D
Thanks for doing this btw. You are a great asset to the film industry.
Tim, that is impressive, wow!!! I love it. I am so sorry we had to pull this down. My elite team and I are going to review all the entries this weekend and we will announce a winner Monday morning. Then after the winner is announced we will give you all the answers to the contest. Good luck
Nathan, it looks great to me and my elite team will figure it out. Thanks so much for your expertise and commitment. Good luck
Nathan, it looks great to me. My elite team and I will figure it out. Thank you so much for your time and expertise. Good luck
0:00 5D
0:05:07 5D (aliasing)
0:08:06 5D color moire
0:14:19 Arri
0:22:02 looks different maybe a key frame?
0:22:06 still Arri
0:26:03 5D (aliasing)
0:29:04 Arri
0:30:13 reflection of camera between two glasses
0:30:23 reflection of camera left of glass, above hand
0:32:11 Arri
0:36:12 Arri
0:42:19 Arri (dust specks from scanning film?)
0:45:13 Arri (more dust)
0:57:15 Arri (more dust)
1:00:16 weird artifact from frame changing software? Digital color noise, so must be 5D
1:00:22 5D (more frame change artifacts)
1:02:04 5D “”
1:03:07 don’t know but I’ll guess Sony because it doesn’t look like anything so far
1:05:04 not 5D (rotors would be give-away) guess: Arri
1:06:07 5D (frame change)
1:07:06 same as 0:15 (Arri film grain?)
1:08:03 5D (blown highlights, frame change)
1:09:16 Same as 1:03:07 (CA, colors)
1:10:21 5D frame change artifacts
1:12:08 5D
1:13:14 5D rolling shutter, sensor dust (time for cleaning)
1:14:17 5D (no more sensor dust issue)
1:16:23 Arri
1:18:10 Sony (maybe Arri)
1:20:14 5D
1:22:02 5D
1:23:09 Arri
1:24:14 5D with dust on sensor again
1:26:12 Sony
1:29:21 5D
1:30:14 Sony
1:31:22 5D
1:33:04 5D
1:34:17 5D
1:39:04 Sony
1:40:10 5D
1:41:21 5D
1:44:21 5D
1:47:21 5D
1:49:05 Arri
1:50:12 This seems different from everything so for, but I’ll guess Sony because of color noise
1:51:01 5D (aliasing)
1:52:04 5D
1:53:16 5D
1:55:01 5D
1:55:16 5D rolling shutter (different settings from previous shot)
1:57:00 5D
My best guess is the panning sequence of the girls on the deck (including the rise out of the water to see the armed man on the boat).
I’m also thinking the last sequence of the men walking on the edge of the boat.
Both have a clarity to them that I associate with digital still photography. No noise or grain. Just my best guess.
Whether right or wrong a fun exercise. I look forward to seeing the answer.
Jim, thanks for playing, I’m glad you like it. The winner will be announced on Monday morning, answers to the contest to follow.
Black hattitude, you are so welcome, more great stuff to come, check out the new BMW short.
Hi,
thanks for the great quality of your blog, each time i come here, i’m amazed.
black hattitude.
Shane that’s awesome! You’ve got some very excited 5D fanatics here in San Diego who can’t wait to hear / see what you guys are doing. I’ll reach you via your website but the 4th would let me get the most people together. Thanks very much for volunteering your offwork hours. A few of us missed the Collision Conference and have been majorly bummed as a result. This will be the perfect antidote.
The other Shane, sounds great. I am shooting at the National Cemetery, until 5:30 pm on the 4th. I will be back at my hotel by 6:00pm. I could meet everyone in the lobby at 7;00pm. Thoughts? I hope to see you then.
Sounds good. I’ll need to figure out a location close to there – I’m still trying to get a rough head count. People are excited!
Very interessting question and nice sequence.
From the production logic the 5D II will be perfekt for the action szenes with little space to shoot – lifeboot szene and many of the szenes when naviseals assult the ship.
Daniel
The other Shane, I am staying at the Indigo, what if we set up something there. On the 4th I will have done a 16 hour day and would love to stay around. Thoughts? I am very excited about the response. YEAH BABY!!!!!
Daniel, the size of the camera is one of its huge strong points, I love the way it moves in handheld mode, it has subtle vibration that adds to the intensity of the action. This camera is developing a new film language of movement. I am glad you liked the sequence.
Tim, I just compared your analysis to mine, and it seems very similar. We differ on these time frames:
Time You Me
00:26 Arri 5D
01:03 5D/Sony Sony maybe
01:05 Sony Arri
I ruled out the 5D based upon the rotors of the helicopter not being curved. I couldn’t decided between Arri and Sony. Interesting that you ruled out Arri but thought 5D could have done it.
01:10 Sony 5D
01:17-01:18 you actually have covered by two cameras. I assume the 01:14-01:18 should have been 01:14-01:17, in which case, I think we agree.
01:23 Sony Arri
01:49-01:50 you didn’t separate this out. I did — I thought Arri.
01:50 5D Sony
Perhaps unfair to the 5D, a dead giveaway is the artifacts that appear from converting from 30fps to 24 fps. Assuming Canon’s firmware update next year contains 24 fps, this issue will go away. These artifacts usually look like smudged lines or distortions of elements in a picture. For example, a straight line will appear curved. Since I’m not familiar with either the Sony or the Arri, I just guessed at those based on the Arri being a film camera. If my guesses are right, the Sony seems to have some CA that is absent in the Arri clips. The Arri clips also reveal dust and emulsion imperfections that are absent on digital. These aren’t very noticeable at full speed, though.
Victor and Tim, keep it up, I love your analysis. You guys are getting close. Winner to be announced tomorrow, Monday the 2nd. Answers to follow. Good luck
Hey Victor, I double checked those shots.
00:26 > Sticking with Arri – I see texture from the grain.
01:03 > I still think 5D because of some aliasing on the boat but the Sony could have this too.
01:05 > Still Sony for me. It doesn’t seem like film to me and the highlights in the water look too clipped/sharp.
01:10 > The cockpit is so dark, still expect more from the 5D here but could be either.
01:17-01:18 > Yes should have been 01:14- 01:17. So we agree here.
01:23 – 01:24 > Def not the Arri. The highlights are way to harsh and you can see the compression working over time. Still say Sony but could be the 5D.
01:49-01:50 > There is what looks like lint on the image which would make you think it was film but there are some distortions on the ceiling lines that should be the 5D. So still 5D for me
01:50 > Sticking with my first answer but could go either way.
If you can manage the 5D faults it can look as good or even better that the Sony, this really shows you how much this camera offers. How much more money is the Sony? Amazing stuff. I love my 5D2. Film still holds up well but comes with a cost, production and logistics hit.
I would also love to know what lenses were used on what shots because they bring certain textures and characteristics to the image. Like those shots of the helicopter landing from the boat pov seem to have much more contrast to them.
I racked my brain on this stuff and found it a fun little test. What happens if we tie or get close Shane? :)
Taking another look:
00:26 It does seem to be similar to the previous. I decided 5D due to aliasing, but I’m changing my mind due to similar look to the previous and lack of frame change artifacts. This clip, however, could have been slomo without a problem to avoid the artifacts. I choose to believe, though, that it’s not. I also just noticed the camera’s reflection may be visible in the clapper of the bell. It’s too small for me to discern anything, though.
1:03 I think I see the aliasing you are referring to. That aliasing reinforces to me that it is not the 5D. If it were, there would be color aliasing there. Instead of color aliasing, though, it’s just aliasing. I stick with Sony. Since I believe it’s Sony, the color in the whitecaps gives hints for other clips. Several clips I’ve identified as Sony have similar CA. This could be a lens-specific thing, and lenses could be swapped for all cameras involved, so this might be a red herring. Still, I’m sticking to it. The Sony uses prisms to separate the color channels, right? Does that technique introduce this sort of artifact?
1:05 I’m switching to Sony on this one. It took me a while to decide on whether the film grain was right. I waffled between film grain being hidden by compression artifacts in the darker colors. On second look, there are some brighter colors in the scene that still don’t show the film grain I expect, so I’m switching to Sony. Definitely not 5D or I’d expect curved rotors.
1:10 Look at the waves through the windshield along the dashboard. They are distorted. The distortion is not from imperfections in the windshield or you’d see them throughout. They’re an artifact from the software changing from 30fps to 24fps, hence the camera was the 5D. I suggest the poor quality of the very dark areas inside the cockpit are from the compression algorithm and not from the camera.
1:23 On closer inspection, I’ll go with Sony due to the aliasing (again not color aliasing that I would expect with the 5D).
1:49 I agree. 5D.
1:50 I missed the distortion caused by changing frame rate before but see it now (look at the nose vs. bar in windshield. So I’m revising to 5D for this shot. Probably done at the same time as other cockpit clip.
Victor and Tim I love that you went back and re-analized it. Well if there are two people that are close, then maybe you are both visiting the set. We will see I have my judges looking it all over tonight and will post the winner by Monday afternoon. Thanks again for you commitment and passion.
nice work
mane, thank so much, more cool footage coming your way.
Hi. I’m looking at producing a adventure show for Discovery Channel. I was thinking of using the Sony EX3 camera, but am very interested in the 5D. I am aware that the BBC rejected the 5D camera, and I am interested to know your take on the 5D’s “broadcast quality”.
I am sorry if you have already answered this kind of question already.
I am especially interested in questions of compression, codex and artifacts.
Do you think that the 1DS will be more acceptable to channels like the BBC than the 5D? Do you think that Canon will put out a firmware upgrade to allow recording in a different codex, something more akin to HDcam? Do you think that the Canon is comparable to, or better than the EX3 and that the BBC (and, presumably, Discovery) are unfairly dismissing the 5D?
Also, relatedly, can you see the day when you could shoot a commercial feature film that is going to go to 35mm movie film on the 5D? The Terminator promo clips, after all, only went onto the internet. Is the quality of the camera anywhere near enough to get put up onto the big screen?
Thanks for your time and help. I appreciate your work.
Jeff
Hi Jeff, I am doing a film right now for Warner Bros. that is 75% 5D and it is going to be on 300 IMAX screens across the US along with 2200 Digital theaters. I feel that Canon will come out with a different codex, but the beauty of this camera is that it records onto a compact flash card. The 8 BIT color space is limiting but I have been doing some amazing things with it. It holds up very well. I have bought 9-5D’s and 2-7D’s. I have 4-1D’s on order. I am going to Croatia to lens a movie for Fox called Medieval, it is a 157 million dollar action movie and I plan on shooting a lot of the action sequences with this camera. I feel that the BBC nixed the camera not because of its quality, but because that is does not generate timecode. That defeats there whole post work flow. Also the post is difficult at this time, but things are a changin’. The camera is 10 times better than the EX3 if you want your HD to look like film, if you want it to look like HD then go for the EX 3. Yes, I can see the day that 35mm movie film will be shot on the 5D, I am creating the wave, I hope you are inspired to catch it.
Really nice blog !
I’m one of your rss user ;-)
thalasso
William Russo, thank you so much for your kind words. I will continue to push the envelope.
William Russo, thank you for all those kind words, I am glad that you are enjoying it.
nice works,
i am trying to film a new project and for the first time i am going to use 5D.
Hello Shane,
I have been shooting Pentax since 1965, now I wanted to buy their new K-5 but it is HD@25fps which is PAL. I need 23.976 for NTSC here in North America. Or at least 29.97. The bad joke – Japan is NTSC. I use CS5 and Lightroom 3. How can I convert frame rates or do I jump ship and buy a Canon 7D…? Really enjoy your wisdom and tutorials. Blue skies, Harry
I just spent the last few hours lost in this site. I have subscribed to your feed and will be coming back for sure!